Do CC Directors pay for their own children’s tuition?

Do Classical Conversations (CC) Directors have to write a check (to themselves) for full tuition for each of their kids?

Karen-CC Director

Karen,

No. You do not have to write a check to your business for your children’s tuition. 

Here’s why:

If you pay your licensing fee based on student enrollment/tuition collected, you should track the total tuition collected including your own children in that head count. That way you is paying the correct amount for your licensing fee.

But for tax purposes, a you should NOT write your business a check for your own children’s tuition. Additionally, you do not include your child’s tuition in the income reported on your tax return (I’m assuming Karen, that you are operating your business as a sole proprietorship).

The reason is a principle in taxation called imputed income.

It states that a person should not be taxed when they avoid paying for services by providing the services to themselves.

There was a court case in 1928 that ruled that the imputed income from produce grown and eaten by a farm owner is not taxable as income to the farmer.[9]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imputed_income#cite_note-9. See Footnote 9 Morris v. Commissioner, 9 B.T.A. 1273, 1278 (1928). Accessed January 20, 2019. See footnote 9

Conclusion: Karen must keep track of the tuition she would owe for her children so that she pays the correct licensing fees, but she does not need to write a tuition check to her business and she should not report her child’s tuition as taxable income on her business tax return (Schedule C).

Carol Topp, CPA

HomeschoolCPA.com

My book Taxes for Licensed Classical Conversations Directors is available through Classical Conversations. Find it  in the Directors Licensing Guide  page 54, Appendix M and click on “this document.”

Can CC Director offered reduced tuition to her tutors?

 

Can a Classical Conversations director gift an Independent Contractor or employee with free or reduced tuition?

Suzy

 

Suzy,
A Classical Conversations (CC) Director can give educational benefits (i.e., discounts on tuition) to Independent Contractors (IC) or employees, but (and this is a big, “but”) the value of these educational benefits is taxable income and must be reported on their W-2 or 1099-MISC.

So a CC director can offer a tuition discount to an IC or employee, but must add the value of that discount to the tax reports she gives to her tutors (1099-MISC or W-2).

And the worker must report her paid wages and the value of this discount/gift on her tax return as taxable income. You should warn her about that in writing and face-to-face, so they aren’t surprised at tax time!

We think that taxable income is only what comes in a paycheck, but the IRS defines taxable compensation to include “educational benefits.”

compensation includes salary or wages, deferred compensation, retirement benefits…, fringe benefits (personal vehicle, meals, lodging, personal and family educational benefits, low interest loans, payment of personal travel, entertainment, or other expenses, athletic or country club membership, and personal use of your property), and bonuses.[i]  (my emphasis added)

[i] Instructions for Form 1023 https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i1023/ch02.html#d0e1909

So, yes, a CC Director can offer free or reduced fees to an Independent Contractor or employee, but it is not a gift; it is taxable income and must be included in their wage and income reporting.

A CC Director should also check her license agreement with Classical Conversations to see if reduced fees are allowed.

If you have additional tax questions about being a CC Director, I wrote an ebook that can help!
Taxes for Licensed CC Directors is available from Classical Conversation. Find it here
Carol Topp, CPA
HomeschoolCPA.com

Aren’t Classical Conversations tutors just like online tutors?

I’m a Classical Conversations Director and I have a local CPA. I have a question about independent contractor status for tutors. The articles I read here seem to suggest we should treat tutors as employees. Yet, for several years I worked as a tutor for national online tutoring company as an independent contractor. I was given training, direct oversight, evaluations, worked for 5-10 hours a week, yet I was an independent contractor.

What is the difference with CC tutors in the eyes of the IRS? Just trying to understand!

Thanks, Allison

 

Allison,
Thank you for contacting me.

You seem to assume that your worker classification as an Independent Contractor as  a tutor for a national online tutoring company was the correct classification. I’m not convinced it was.

You only told me four bits of information about your relationship with the online tutoring company (I was given training, direct oversight, evaluations, worked for 5-10 hours a week), yet three of those practices (training, evaluations, and oversight) would confirm your status should have been as an employee, not an Independent Contractor.

When I make a worker determination, I do not base my conclusions on what other companies have done or are doing. I base my conclusions on the IRS guidelines, tax court cases, IRS rulings, and the facts and circumstances of each case.

You asked, “What is the difference with CC tutors in the eyes of the IRS?” There may not be many differences in the online tutoring and tutoring for CC,  but I don’t assume that you were correctly treated as an IC when you did the online tutoring.

Classical Conversations offers an ebook I wrote, Taxes for Licensed Classical Conversations Directors, where I explain the options to CC Directors in how to pay tutors.  You can treat your tutors as Independent Contractors and in the ebook I explain the risks and consequences involved.

You might show portions of the ebook to your local CPA and get his/her opinion. If he or she determines your tutors are Independent Contractors, then you should request that your CPA put his/her conclusion in writing and on firm letterhead. A letter like that could possibly help you avoid IRS penalties if you are ever investigated by the IRS. But let’s hope you never need it!

If you have more questions, I would be happy to arrange a phone consultation with you. We can discuss a lot of topics in an hour, but in particular your questions about paying your tutors.

Carol Topp, CPA

 

Ebook Taxes for CC Licensed Directors almost ready!

I just sent the final (I hope) version of my  ebook Taxes for Classical Conversions Licensed Directors off to Classical Conversations, Inc!

The ebook will be distributed by Classical Conversations, Inc to their licensed directors. It is my understanding that the ebook will be available at no charge to the licensed directors.

Update: The ebook was released on the Directors License Guide in late March 2018. Find it here.

If you’ve already prepared your tax return for 2017, you should STILL read this ebook to be sure you did everything correctly!

If you are not a licensed director with CC, I cannot share or sell a copy with you (sorry!), but I recommend you read the following blog posts:

CC Directors: Do not give yourself a 1099-MISC

Tax return for a Classical Conversations homeschool business

I’m a Classical Conversations Director. Do I have to file any forms with the IRS?

Understanding Taxes for a small homeschool business

 

Carol Topp, CPA


Free Resource

In the ebook, I mention a bookkeeping spreadsheet for CC Directors. You can get the spreadsheet now (all it costs is your email!)

 


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Taxes for Classical Conversations Directors

Last tax year I was asked a lot of questions about taxes by Classical Conversations directors and tutors. Things like:

  • What tax form should I to use to report my income and expenses?
  • What expenses were tax deductible?
  • What tax forms do I need to give to my tutors?
  • How should tutors be paid?
  • How do I pay myself as a CC Director?

Fortunately, there is an ebook in the works to help CC Directors titled:

Taxes for Classical Conversions Directors

The ebook is available only to Licensed CC Directors from Classical Conversations, Inc

You can find the ebook here

 

I recommend the following blog posts:

CC Directors: Do not give yourself a 1099-MISC

Tax return for a Classical Conversations homeschool business

I’m a Classical Conversations Director. Do I have to file any forms with the IRS?

Understanding Taxes for a small homeschool business


There is a lot to learn about running a business. I don’t mean to discourage you or anyone else away from operating a homeschool business. You provide a valuable service to homeschool families! I am offering this webinar to help you understand the tax implications:

I recorded a webinar on Tax Preparation for Homeschool Business Owners. It should be a lot of help to tutors, non-employee co-op teachers and other homeschool business owners! You can watch the recording at HomeschoolCPA.com/HSBIZTAXES for a small fee of $10.

Carol, thank you again for the webinar. It was one of the BEST webinars I’ve EVER attended. If you do hold another one, I would pay for it hands down. Totally worth the $10! -Denise, webinar attendee

“I actually don’t care for webinars at all – it is not my learning style at all and I struggle to focus, but this one was extremely value and had my attention”. -Mary, webinar attendee


 

Consult a local small business CPA. To find a local tax preparer I recommend two sources:

Both of these websites allow you to search for a local tax preparer who is knowledgeable about taxes for small sole proprietor businesses.

 

Carol Topp, CPA


Free Resource

In the ebook, I mention a bookkeeping spreadsheet for CC Directors. You can get the spreadsheet now (all it costs is your email!)

 


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Homeschool program rejected by a church

Hi! I am a director of a for-profit classical homeschool program in Illinois. Our church is asking us to leave as they believe hosting us threatens their tax exempt status. Other churches who have heard this claim do not want to accept us. Any advice? -Kimberly in IL

Kimberly,

I’m very sorry to hear about your problems with finding a church host.

The church is probably worried about their property tax exemption in Illinois since your classical homeschool program is a business and not a religious or educational nonprofit.

Property tax exemption is different from federal income tax exemption granted by the IRS. The IRS grants churches automatic status as 501(c)(3) religious organizations. That’s not what is being threatened here.

Property tax exemptions are determined by the state and sometimes the county laws. That’s what has the church worried. If they lose property tax exemption, it will be very expensive for them to pay property tax.

I did a little digging and found some information about church property tax exemption in Illinois. Illinois may deny property tax exemption to the church if an organization using the church’s property has a “view to profit.” Illinois says that having a “view to profit” is incompatible with property tax exemption.

Unfortunately, as currently structured, your homeschool program has a “view to profit” and the church doesn’t want to offer your group space to meet and risk losing its property tax exemption.

The only advice I have is to ask the church if they would offer space to your program if it were a nonprofit organization with a religious and/or educational purpose. Illinois does grant property tax exemption to some educational organizations.

If you wish to re-form as a nonprofit organization, I can help you understand the pros and cons.

Carol Topp, CPA

HomeschoolCPA.com

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Should my homeschool group be a nonprofit or a for-profit business?

A woman asks if her Classical Conversations homeschool program should be a for-profit business or a nonprofit organization.

Carol Topp, CPA explains the four differences between for-profit and nonprofits.

Listen to the podcast (11 minutes)

 

Phone Consultation with Carol Topp, CPA

Phone Consultation: A pre-arranged phone call to discuss your questions. My most popular service for homeschool leaders. It’s like having your own homeschool expert CPA on the phone!

Cost: $75/hour to nonprofit organizations.  $100/hour to for-profit businesses. $60 minimum.

Q &A by Email:  I am willing to answer questions by email, but it is very time consuming to read and reply to emails. I charge a reduced rate of $50/hour to read and reply to emails. Minimum $25.

Contact HomeschoolCPA, Carol Topp, CPA, to arrange a telephone consultation.

Click Here to request more information!

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Understanding Taxes for a small homeschool business

It’s tax season and I’ve been getting several emails from homeschool business owners, especially Classical Conversations directors, about how to fill out their tax returns.

The IRS has a terrific website called Understanding Taxes that explains how to fill out a simple business tax return.

It’s quite good. I’ve used their simulations when I taught personal finance at my homeschool co-op

Visit these websites to learn how to fill out your Schedule C Business Income and Loss.

Understanding Taxes home page

Simulation of filing a simple business tax return using Schedule C-EZ

Simulation of filing a simple business tax return with a 1099-MISC (this simulation would be helpful for a Classical Conversation tutor who receives a 1099-MISC).

 

You could also try searching Youtube for helpful videos on preparing a business tax return. Here’s one I found:
How to Fill Out Schedule C for Business Taxes He goes over the Schedule C line by line in about 20 minutes.

 

I hope that helps,

Carol Topp, CPA

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Tax return for a Classical Conversations homeschool business

We are a new Classical Conversations community set up as a single member LLC. We only had 2 students and so my tutor’s income was below the requirement for filing 1099s. Same for me. However, I saw that I shouldn’t be filing a 1099-MISC for myself. What should I be doing?

And what is considered profit for a CC community?

Esther

 

Thank you for emailing me your question about taxes and your Classical Conversations (CC) business.

As a single member LLC, you are a sole proprietorship and you report your income and expenses from your CC business on a Schedule C Profit or Loss from Business as part of your Form 1040.

All your income from the tuition and fees charged to your customers (i.e. parents) goes on line 1 Gross receipts or sales. In this example the total income is $4,500.

Your payment to your teacher(s) goes on Line 11 Contract Labor.  In this example a total of $2,250 was paid to independent contractors. Other expenses go in the categories listed in Part II of the Schedule C. Other expenses made the total expenses sum to $2,982 as shown on Line 28.

The profit is shown on Line 31. It is calculated  from Gross Income (Line 7 on the form) minus Expenses (Line 28). The profit is what you get to keep (and pay taxes on!) as the business owner. In this example the profit is $1,518. This amount will carried forward to the Form 1040.


There is a lot to learn about running a business. I have a webinar to help you understand the tax implications:

My webinar Tax Preparation for Homeschool Business Owners should be a lot of help to tutors, non-employee co-op teachers and other homeschool business owners! You can watch the recording at HomeschoolCPA.com/HSBIZTAXES for a small fee of $10.

Carol, thank you again for the webinar. It was one of the BEST webinars I’ve EVER attended. If you do hold another one, I would pay for it hands down. Totally worth the $10! -Denise, webinar attendee

“I actually don’t care for webinars at all – it is not my learning style at all and I struggle to focus, but this one was extremely value and had my attention”. -Mary, webinar attendee


P.S. I am no longer taxing new tax clients, so I recommend you find a local CPA to help you in preparing your tax return. To find a local CPA or accountant I recommend you try Dave Ramsey’s Endorsed Local Providers and Quickbooks Proadvisors. A lot of CPAs and accountants listed on these sites specialize in small businesses.

Carol Topp, CPA
HomeschoolCPA.com
Helping homeschool leaders

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CC Directors: Do not give yourself a 1099-MISC

I have spoken to several Classical Conversations (CC) Directors lately who tell me that they gave themselves a 1099-MISC to report what they paid themselves.

But this is not correct! CC Directors should not give themselves a 1099-MISC.

I can understand their confusion. These Directors are business owners of a Classical Conversations community offering classes for homeschool students and their parents in how to educate their children using classical methods. Typically, these Directors hire tutors as independent contractors to teach a class once a week and frequently the Directors also teach a class themselves.

They give their tutors a 1099-MISC to report their earned income and so they think they should give themselves a 1099-MISC as well. But this is not the correct way to report income as a CC Director.

As a business owner (and I’m referring to a sole proprietorship filing a Schedule C on their Form 1040) a CC Director is not paid as an independent contractor. Business owners are not “paid” at all. Instead they get to keep all the profit that the business makes. That profit is their “pay” or earnings from the business.

How to correctly report your income from your CC business

One Director told me that she reported her 1099-MISC as her total income on her Schedule C Business Income or Loss. But this is not correct. I explained that she needed to report all the income that the participating families paid her. That amount is her total income, not what she “paid herself” and reported on a 1099-MISC (incorrectly).

“Oh dear,” she replied, “I’ve been doing it wrong for three years!” Yes, she had been. 🙁

I explained that she needed to file a Form 1040X  Amended Tax Return to correctly report her income on her Schedule C for those prior years.

I also advised her to contact a local CPA to help her learn how to correct her tax returns and prepare it properly in the future.

How to correct a 1099-MISC

If you have given yourself a 1099-MISC, then you need to correct it ASAP!

Start by reading IRS Instructions to Form 1099-MISC page 10. Follow the instructions carefully. Check the CORRECTED box. Include yourself with $0 (zero) in Box 7  Non-employee compensation.

I recommend you contact a local CPA to help you file the corrected 1099-MISC.

If you’ve already prepared your tax return with the incorrect 1099-MISC, you’ll need to file a 1040X as well to amend your tax return.  It’s time to get professional help!


There is a lot to learn about running a business. I don’t mean to discourage you or anyone else away from operating a homeschool business. You provide a valuable service to homeschool families! I am offering this webinar to help you understand the tax implications:

I recorded a webinar on Tax Preparation for Homeschool Business Owners. It should be a lot of help to tutors, non-employee co-op teachers and other homeschool business owners! You can watch the recording at HomeschoolCPA.com/HSBIZTAXES for a small fee of $10.

Carol, thank you again for the webinar. It was one of the BEST webinars I’ve EVER attended. If you do hold another one, I would pay for it hands down. Totally worth the $10! -Denise, webinar attendee

“I actually don’t care for webinars at all – it is not my learning style at all and I struggle to focus, but this one was extremely value and had my attention”. -Mary, webinar attendee


Business taxes and paying employees or independent contractors is not a guessing game! There are professionals like CPA and tax professionals who can help you file your 1099-MISC and tax returns correctly.

How to find a local CPA or accountant
I recommend you hire a local CPA or tax professional because they know your state and local laws best. If you do not already have a CPA or tax professional (and I don’t mean a store front tax preparation service) I recommend you try Dave Ramsey’s Endorsed Local Providers or Quickbooks Proadvisors. A lot of CPAs listed on these sites specialize in small businesses.

Business Consultation

I am not accepting new tax clients, but I will offer a phone consultation for CC Directors, tutors and other homeschool business owners. Contact me to request a phone consultation.

 

Carol Topp, CPA

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